Mobile Spawn Points in Push Gameplay

Mobile Spawn Points in Push Gameplay

Postby Bob » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:30 pm

My stance on this is quite simple. They do not provide any benefit to the game-play, and actually hinder the purpose that push has provided.

The premise is pretty straight forward, you spawn you capture zones in a series and will eventually collide with the enemy. Upon this collision occurring - you begin a back and forth battle that will ensue as long as sides have lives to spare. It is a logistical battle, in that you have to make sure that a) you don't die, and b) that you don't run out of ammunition which both may lead to loss of your foot hold.

Adding mobile spawn points may seem pertinent to your map, but in the whole they do nothing to aide in our game-plays needs and in fact remove the two reasons that push becomes more thought driven than just running and gunning. If i know that my life has purpose i will not waste it. Dying currently has a dual penalty - you will leave the battle at its current location, making it easier for the opposition to move forward and overwhelm your brothers in arms, but it also penalizes you with an extended period of time until you can return to battle. If spawn locations are close to the currently fought over zone you are in effect making it useless to play this as push, and providing a new game mode entirely to itself.

In regards to your comment about the maps needing to be square you are incorrect. With creativity in your hands it will not be difficult to devise some maps that provide numerous routes to many locations and in fact are not square at all. Many maps in Firearms were not square, and FA was entirely Push. Many maps in Battlefield and many other games that are territorial based are not square. It just comes down to your, or others, creative talent to be able to devise a map that is not simply a square. It couldn't be too difficult, because i have seen it done many a time. Our current Push test map is not square. Territorial lends itself to symmetric maps but that is not a necessity. We have already provided the means for you as a mapper to provide a score to the volume that you place in game to control the reward for holding the zone. You could put two volumes near one base each worth 6 points and another around the corner from the second base and have it worth 20. You can scale them as you need, and depending on the actual needs of the map you may find it useful to do so.
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Re: Mobile Spawn Points in Push Gameplay

Postby CrysAk » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:55 pm

100% agree

moving spawns in push takes away from the game modes personality

like in pool/snooker, the winner is always at a disadvantage and therefore is harder to advance, exactly the same occurs in push, when you advance you are more at a disadvantage as you have a longer way to run from your spawn and the enemy is closer, without this will effectively turn it into DM with a changing battlefield location.

also square maps.... if i see a square map im quitting this team :P

common... you have all the freedom in the world to make an interesting and fun level, sure some square maps are fun, but the majority of the classics out there (although usually having an immediately distinguishable shape) are not square

square maps usually work well (no matter how poorly designed) due to the fact you always know where the other team is coming from, so long as you stick to that rule and at no point (unless flanked/rushed) you are shot at from 180% (although there are always exceptions) chances are you will have a killer map on your hands
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Re: Mobile Spawn Points in Push Gameplay

Postby FUBAR » Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:29 pm

well it doesnt look like there is an open dissusion, looks like minds are made up
I DIDNT say only moving spawns, I said could make it optional
reason i was wanting moving spawns was my map (totely rebuilt now) was spawn a spawn b and in between was a obj that was a set of gates, unlocks doors so team a could move into next area, same deal for obj b, obj C was a moving model that was trigged with obj b been capped, obj c was stop model from finishing the operation (for team A) and team B was to left it finish, when team B lost control to A team they where able to recap it

If spawn locations are close to the currently fought over zone you are in effect making it useless to play this as push, and providing a new game mode entirely to itself.

dont know how you see its useless to play as push, coz in same way you are pushing team backwards
like in insurgency (hl2 mod) there push has moving moving and it works well,download it and try it

this is why i was saying an OPTION,mapper could decide what way to go, this gives more options to a map
I know choas and whitfield liked idea of moving spawns
just my 2cents worth not that it counts
having some thing differant or slightly differant to norm is all good too
A diff type of a mode gives mod more than what there is, eg you could possibly have same map with both push types this increasing map numbers,as with most mods/games that have very few maps, they get boring fast
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Re: Mobile Spawn Points in Push Gameplay

Postby Bob » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:10 pm

I have played this game and it was not push. What you are describing is objective based or similar to how UT99 had assault set up. It is in effect just a changing field for DM and that is not what we are trying to do.

If there are merits to this i could understand it, but as it is now having mobile spawn points is a chaos that we do not need to add, considering our ability to meet the current work load...
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Re: Mobile Spawn Points in Push Gameplay

Postby whitfield » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:13 pm

I would say generally speaking, spawns should not move. However, once we get further into development of this game, I think there should be ways to move resources around in a map/set up temporary bases/etc. This is done in real life (I specifically remember seeing videos of the army setting up temporary bridges) and I think it should eventually be modeled in our game. Right now, we have to keep it simple, but in time, I think it could impact gameplay in a good way. Given, it would require a lot of team work in order to make a push that would move spawn points further along, but we reward team work, right?
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